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 Post subject: Seat at trot preparing for canter - beginner level
PostPosted: Mon Mar 09, 2009 12:32 pm 
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I know in seated trot I need to sit on my wallet ( not much of a problem now I have this as a hobby lol ) and sit very tall and vertical but must admit when I'm in the right spot it feels as I'm if anything leaning slightly back ( I know Im not) and feel as if the horse lunges forward too quickly I will roll off the back. Is this a normal feeling? Is this just balance and getting use of it? If my posture moves forward my seat becomes loose and... I get that bouncing thing happening.

Also on the same subject as the trot moves towards canter and getting more energy I've head some say I should be using a little pressure from my lower legs, still keeping my thighs relaxed so I'm not attempting to grip the saddle with them or anything, to help me stick the seat.

This is light pressure so there is still plenty of room to still apply leg aids etc. Yes? No? Sort of?

Also if you are not secure in your seat and balance does this tend to confuse the horse and encourage the horse to slow back to a walk?


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 Post subject: Re: Seat at trot preparing for canter - beginner level
PostPosted: Mon Mar 09, 2009 1:29 pm 
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Bryan wrote:
I know in seated trot I need to sit on my wallet ( not much of a problem now I have this as a hobby lol ) and sit very tall and vertical but must admit when I'm in the right spot it feels as I'm if anything leaning slightly back ( I know Im not) and feel as if the horse lunges forward too quickly I will roll off the back. Is this a normal feeling? Is this just balance and getting use of it? If my posture moves forward my seat becomes loose and... I get that bouncing thing happening.


Yup, this is normal, it's called challenging your balance. :mrgreen: As soon as you start really balancing, instead of clinging on to the horse, you will get a feeling that you are less balanced, when you in fact are starting to balance on your own. This is the only way to take the load off the horse, so that it only needs to balance itself, instead of both you and itself. And then, eventually, the horse will be able to move more freely and more elegant, bedause you are balanced on your own.

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Also on the same subject as the trot moves towards canter and getting more energy I've head some say I should be using a little pressure from my lower legs, still keeping my thighs relaxed so I'm not attempting to grip the saddle with them or anything, to help me stick the seat.

This is light pressure so there is still plenty of room to still apply leg aids etc. Yes? No? Sort of?


When the horse strikes off into canter, you will receive a small jolt and your upper body will be thrown back unless you tighten the abs muscles in order to maintain the perpendicular position and balance in the saddle. If you try to hold on with your legs, you will interfere with the leg signals and also the horse's balance. It will not be possible to fine tune the signals to the horse during the transition and perhaps for several seconds afterwards. Thus it is good practice to try to keep the upright body position during all transitions. Else, you will deprive yourself of a very effective way of communicating with the horse.

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Also if you are not secure in your seat and balance does this tend to confuse the horse and encourage the horse to slow back to a walk?

No doubt, that's very common. The reaction depends on the horse. A lot of individuals will instead run away from the aids and start speeding when he feels the imbalance in the rider. And some will stop or become slow and hesitating.

Hanne

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 Post subject: Re: Seat at trot preparing for canter - beginner level
PostPosted: Mon Mar 09, 2009 4:05 pm 
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Bryan wrote:
and sit very tall and vertical but must admit when I'm in the right spot it feels as I'm if anything leaning slightly back


I know that feeling... But are you sure you are vertical? Because when I felt like that Pelle actually asked me to crunch a tiny bit and claimed that I look straighter that way. When I felt straight I looked as if I leaned backwards and when I felt crunched I was actually straight. And more balanced ;)
(What do you think Hanne?)

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 09, 2009 4:11 pm 
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That probably depends on what kind of fault you usually do. I feel like I am leaning backwards when I am straight because I usually lean too much forward. It is very hard to tell what is correct just from a description of how things feel because we have different habits and faults.

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 09, 2009 4:41 pm 
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I agree with both. It depends on the individual. But if you feel as if you fall backwards when striking off into canter, there is usually something wrong in the balance of the upper body.

It is very important to get someone to check your seat, preferably someone capable of detecting the tiny details. There is a thousand ways to sit incorrectly and just one correct way. Unfortunately.

Hanne

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Paradox is a pointer telling you to look beyond it. If paradoxes bother you, that betrays your deep desire for absolutes. The relativist treats a paradox merely as interesting, perhaps amusing or even, dreadful thought, educational.

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 Post subject: Re: Seat at trot preparing for canter - beginner level
PostPosted: Mon Mar 09, 2009 6:27 pm 
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hege h wrote:
Bryan wrote:
and sit very tall and vertical but must admit when I'm in the right spot it feels as I'm if anything leaning slightly back


I know that feeling... But are you sure you are vertical? Because when I felt like that Pelle actually asked me to crunch a tiny bit and claimed that I look straighter that way. When I felt straight I looked as if I leaned backwards and when I felt crunched I was actually straight. And more balanced ;)
(What do you think Hanne?)


He is vertical, no doubt ;) Would be fun if you could put up some photos from the clinic or something, Bryan, since you got so many :) For a long time I had a bad habit of leaning backwards a bit, and it certainly felt like I was falling forwards every time I was told I was sitting correctly, so it's hard to get the balance, but when it's there it's not hard anymore (not that part at least ;) )

Henrikke

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 Post subject: Re: Seat at trot preparing for canter - beginner level
PostPosted: Mon Mar 09, 2009 10:29 pm 
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Hi Henrikke, posting photos from the clinic. All the photos I have are of others none of my seat position. :D


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 10, 2009 7:32 am 
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Hmm.. ok then. perhaps Luke's got some :P

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Mar 10, 2009 8:02 am 
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Here Bryan's getting his position corrected, and that is pretty straight ;)

Image

And here I'm being mean, telling him to ride without reins with his eyes shut, so that was a bit of a challenge for a new rider :P

Image

Henrikke

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Mar 10, 2009 9:35 am 
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Good job, Henrikke. :)

And yes, that's being straight in the upper body, Bryan.

Hanne

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Paradox is a pointer telling you to look beyond it. If paradoxes bother you, that betrays your deep desire for absolutes. The relativist treats a paradox merely as interesting, perhaps amusing or even, dreadful thought, educational.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Mar 10, 2009 11:56 am 
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Looking at the second image what about my lower leg and feet position -have they slipped too far forward? Could it be that that is making me feel like I'm unstable in the backwards direction? Also in the first photo it looks to me that my legs are a little further back but shoulders, hips and heals are still not in line... or am I being over critical here!

I have another riding lesson tomorrow so will be working more on my seat. I'm still going though not quite sure on stirrup lengths finding short length easier for two point but long easier in seated trot... Not practical I know and I will finally find a length that I am comfortable with both.

Thanks for all the comments and appreciate the response on such basic questions.

Bryan.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Mar 10, 2009 12:57 pm 
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Ideally your heels should stay right below your seat bones, regardless of the stirrup length. You just have to adjust by bending the knee accordingly. And it's the norm to ride a little shorter when riding out, jumping or in the posting trot.

In the beginning it might be a good thing to practice without stirrups, just to get the feel of the balance and make sure that you don't cling to the stirrups. A very common fault is to cling so much to the stirrups that you actually push yourself bakwards and out of the saddle. The hip joint should stay absolutely loose and thus let your seat stay in a forward position i the saddle with the seat bones in the deepest point of the saddle.

I prefer telling the riders to keep their seats to the front instead of keeping their legs back, because the imbalance most often comes from the seat slipping back. It should feel almost as if you are starting to kneel.

Hanne

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 10, 2009 2:33 pm 
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I think it would be good for you to have a little longer stirrups than you have in the photos. I find it easier to relax in the legs if i don't have to keep them that bent in the knee. But as you're doing a good deal of posting trot and "two point" where you're riding now, you can't keep them too long.

Henrikke

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Mar 10, 2009 7:25 pm 
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Just thought i would jump in here to clarify something for Bryan. Im not sure what terms they are teaching you at the school, but posting trot is also rising trot.

I find it interesting that you liken the position to kneeling Hanne. I have been thinking about this sort of thing a lot since i was at your place last. Since i have been trying to get my legs back and under me a bit more. and i have been thinking of it like pointing my knee towards the ground, instead of in front of me. so a similar sort of thing.

Getting use to not relying on your stirrups is a really good thing if your main purpose for riding is going to be cavalry riding and jousting. Too many people rely on their stirrups for balance and fall is they loose one.

Something you might want to practice Bryan, is rotating your pelvis while sitting in a chair. Most of the time when you sit on a chair you tend to let your pelvis roll back at the hips so you are sitting more on you but cheeks. Its softer and more comfortable. A lot of people then sit like this in the saddle which makes it very hard to use your core correctly, and get your legs in the correct position. If you sit on a hard chair and practice rolling your hips and pelvis forward while sitting there, you should find your seat bones quite easily, as they will push into the chair and be a bit uncomfortable. Particularly being that your slim like me! Its a good and easy way to find how the lower part of your body should be in the saddle. When you get in the saddle next do the same thing without stirrups at a stand still. Sit in the saddle and rotate your pelvis so you find those same seat bones in the saddle, then stretch your legs down and back. Being a guy you will need to adjust your self to make this comfortable, and while learning to use this seat you will find a few uncomfortable time when you bounce and land bad :wink: but suck it up, so to speak.

L

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Mar 10, 2009 8:58 pm 
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Haha, well said, Luke. I particularly liked the description of how you press the knees down.

Knees down, heels back.

A lot of people try to press the heels down too much and then the legs swing forwards and the ankle is not allowed to give elastically.

Hanne

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Paradox is a pointer telling you to look beyond it. If paradoxes bother you, that betrays your deep desire for absolutes. The relativist treats a paradox merely as interesting, perhaps amusing or even, dreadful thought, educational.

Frank Herbert.


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